Playing House

In book four I found it very interesting how Venus and Juno used Dido and Aeneas as pawns in their game they were playing. This romance which originated from the gods (Cupid) was set into motion by the storm brought on by Juno and continued when the gods ultimately manipulated them into the cave. It's as if the gods are simply playing house with human lives.

For a moment, we see the gods half way, kind of, sort of, almost agreeing on something. Juno and Venus work together to get the lovers together. The reader finally sees some sort of accord among the gods. However, reading on it's clear we spoke too soon. Another god's prompting (Jupiter) breaks up the affair by telling Aeneas to leave. Thus, the romantic flame is ended in flames and the gods' great game of house continues on.

P.S. I commented on Abbey's post!

Held in High Esteem

It's so interesting to me that in these ancient epics so full of blood and conquest, you often have these semi random interludes of the protagonist with someone who is rejected. There is Odysseus with both Circe an Calypso, and now there is Aeneas and Dido. It's as though the ancient authors recognized the significance of conquest and land and adventure, and equated it to this struggle for acceptance and love. Now it seems that their perceptions of love were a bit off from what you and I would probably define them as, but still, this is how they perceived it. It's really sad to me how in nearly every instance, the person is rejected. Still it's fascinating to me that in a world of so much power and warfare, etc, the matters of the heart are deemed in near equal importance.

On ze Kennedy's

Fear of Death

When Aeneas gets to the underworld one of the first things he sees are the interesting “monsters”.  But then he is unafraid because they are ghost.  That is so weird to thing about, because most people in today’s world would be more scared?  Anyway, If it’s not a stretch i think the imagery here may represent our fear of death.  It seems that throughout works we read that discuss any form of an after life or underworld, tend to have some draw to the fear of it. 


Comment

The Dark Abyss

This books descriprion of the underworld is much different then what I have encountered in past Greek literature. I've always imagined the underworld to be like it was expressed in Disney's brillant adaptation of Hercules. I imagined all the dead just wondering in a dark abyss, groaning. While reading I couldn't help but think to myself that if you were a good person it wouldn't be all that bad. I would be roaming in a beautiful, peaceful field. However, if you were to die out of love or not been burried properly, not so much... I enjoyed reading this excert.

P.S. I posted on Jeremy's.

Greek vs. Roman Underworlds

The differences between the Greek and Roman perception of the Underworld were unexpected to me. I expected for us to go to the Underworld we had to sail and offer a sacrifice then guard the blood, but instead we pluck a flower and travel down a cave. I was kinda disappointed, until I read the great detail and expansion that Virgil made on our knowledge of the Underworld. Unlike Homer, who does introduce us to various interesting ghosts, Virgil takes us on a literal tour of the Underworld. And unlike in The Odyssey, these ghosts are happy and know what's going on. Well the ones that aren't in torment. Was there a shift in the imagery of the Underworld between the time of the Greeks and Romans? For the Greeks, the Underworld was full of hopelessness and decay, but the Romans display forms of reward for those who are worthy. Maybe the Romans were trying to imply Plato's idea that the men should not fear death, but welcome it.

I commented on Collin's.

Scruples

I love the imagery used when Dido is convinced by Anna's advice to let her romantic passions take over. The intricate layout of the sacrifices is kind of beautiful in a weird macabre manner. But glorious macabre. It's intriguing that this slaughterhouse bloodbath also comes after the comment that Dido forgot her scruples. Immediately following this we see that the prophetic vision of Æneas is falling apart. All the projects are forgotten. I thought of the Republic. The city's guardian has forgotten her (insert greek word for soul that I don't know how to spell) and her city is in shambles.
P. S. I commented on Ashley's. 

Hell

I thought the portrayal of hell was interesting for a few reasons. First, the souls of those who were there seemed more human than spirit. They were still bound by human experiences. For example, Dido still held a grudge against Aeneas, and turned and walked away from him as he tried to speak. It would seem as though a soul wouldn't be limited to mortal emotions. Second, I thought it was interesting to see Aeneas's reaction when he sees his father. Aeneas tries to hug his father three times but fails, just like Odysseus did when he saw his mother.

I commented on Sydni's.

Dido vs. Aeneas

I thought it was really interesting to look at the difference between Dido and Aeneas's reaction to their break up. Aeneas regrets it, but he leaves because he knows his fate is somewhere else, and because of respect for the gods. Dido, however, doesn't react so well. Instead, she puts all of his stuff in a pile to burn-which seems like a typical scorned lover thing to do. But, as she sees him sail away, she takes it one step further than crazy ex, and becomes a tragic lover as she commits suicide.
This last attempt seems really extreme, but in context of the epic, it makes sense. In a weird twisted way. By having her be struck by Cupid, her love for him is no longer in her control. In the Aeneid, love is less of an emotion or decision, and more closely an outside force that can't be controlled. Aeneas on the other hand, still wasn't in control of this decision, but he was fated to continue on to Italy.
P.S. I commented on Jeremy's

Wherefore art thou romeo?

I seem to have a habit of comparing the works we read in this class to works that I've read in the past. With no exception, I can't help but compare book 4 to Romeo and Juliet. Dido is so distressed that she cannot be with her lover that she decides she can no longer live, so she kills herself just like Juliet. But where is Romeo? Aeneas sees Dido's pitiful soul and realizes she killed herself because she could not be with him. While he is troubled by this, he is not as discouraged as Romeo was in Shakespeare's famous play. He continues on with his journey. So based on Dido alone, I think that this part of The Aeneid closely resembles Romeo and Juliet, but that's just me.

P.S. I commented on Jeremy's post.

Dido

Dido makes me laugh, because she exemplifies a woman who can't control herself.  She goes and makes a vow and can't keep it!  Ladies, Dido doesn't make you look good.  I understand that some men have qualities that just make you lose your mind and forget your values, but values are, well, more valuable.  For a while, I was okay with her changing her mind, but then she goes and wishes that Aeneas will "drink his punishment".  OUCH.  He wasn't even staying there for her, really.  My favorite part, though, was Aeneas' reaction to this.  He was so "duty-bound" that he simply "sighed his heart out" (can't you picture it?) and returned to his fleet.  Poor Dido... she was played.

I commented on Brydon's

The Underworld

The Underworld excursion in the Aeneid is much more extreme than that in the Odyssey. While Odysseus mainly talked to ghosts, Aeneas and the Sibyl actually have to make a journey - which is a lot more interesting to read about.

It does make me wonder why Virgil would add so much to the journey. If he was mimicking Homer, why not just leave the Underworld episode as brief as Homer's? Why not let Aeneas simply talk to his father over a sacrificial carcass, instead of making the journey into the actual deeps of the Underworld? Disparate social/religious/traditional ideas about the Underworld and how to talk to the dead?

Did Virgil just really want to take Aeneas through the different parts of the Underworld? Since he knew people in various destinations in the Underworld, maybe he had to make the journey to encounter them - to tie up loose ends, as in Dido's case. It's an interesting decision, anyway. The structure of Virgil's underworld is fun to examine.

PS I commented on Brydon's post.

The Funeral Pyre of Dido

          I find the account of The Aeneid much more dramatic and touching than The Odyssey. The imagery is much more vibrant, and the plot line, much more tragic. While I do not assent to Dido's personal choices nor her leadership style, I found the portrayal of her suicide moving. The funeral pyre is bedecked with cloths and cypress boughs, almost as dramatic as the cry of her distress, 

"I die unavenged, but let me die. This way, this way, a blessed relief to go into the under gloom. Let the cold Trojan, far at sea, drink in this conflagration and take with him the omen of my death!" 

She could not overcome the temptation of lust, and when ripped from her 'lover' she has nothing else to cling to for her sanity. It is sad to me that they don't really even love each other. Aeneas even says in the Underworld that he had no idea she was that attached to him. Their relationship has not progressed in a healthy manner, but instead the appetitive nature has ruled like a tyrant. It is tragic that such a diplomatic woman could succumb to such a base desire. 

One of my favorite things about epics is how the reader is able to draw so much information from the beginning lines. The tone of the story is set by the way in which the author invokes the Muses. In this case we are not hearing of the man of twists and turns, or the great rage of Achilles, but the story of a man at war. This says so much about the following books, and as one reads through the story this becomes even more clear. Also, from the very start, the Aeneid has always been one of my favorite epics. I am pleased to find myself within its pages again.

PS I Commented on Kennedy's post

Aeneas or Odysseus?

While reading the first two chapters of The Aeneid, I kept finding instances that reminded me of Odysseus' journey in The Odyssey. From the ship crashing in the monstrous storm or the cloud that Venus creates to prevent them from being seen or the many disguises that the different gods possess along the way. It all takes me back to when Poseidon wrecks Odysseus' ship in a storm, when the gods put a cloud over Odysseus so he can make it through the city safely, and when the different gods of his time take on different disguises. Its crazy to me how similar these two stories are at times.

P.S. I commented on Abbey's post.

What is fate?

This crazy rivalry between the gods seems to consume the entire. It looks so heavily over the narrative that at times the story line seems to be less about the deeds of the mortal characters than it is about the bickering among the gods, who are continually disrupting and manipulating events here on Earth. One of the Aeneid’s main themes, it seems to me, is that for both the gods and mortals, fate always wins in the end. Fate always has the final say so. This is the only binding factor between the God'a and mortals. But my question is... What exactly is fate? Do we decide our own fate? Can we change our fate along the way? 
Ps. I commented on Ashley H

I'm...just...so...confused!!!!

While I found this reading more enjoyable than the Odyssey because of it's descriptions of scenery, a majority of my time was spent being completely and totally lost. I couldn't keep track of which god was which and what the main plot line was. It still shocks me how these gods behave. They are constantly baffling me in their interactions with each other. One minute they are bickering and the next they are whining. As a reader it is hard for me to imagine how people at one point found them worthy of praise. Another random thing that I though was interesting was the inclusion of one of the theories of how the great Roman Empire was founded by Romulus the boy raised by a she wolf. Again I am baffled by what these people believed.   


P.S. I commented on Collingsworth's Post

Plagued by the gods

Since everyone seems to be pointing out similarities between the Odyssey and the Aeneid, I figured I might as well jump on the bandwagon and go with it. But my point may be just a little different. While reading this I found myself highly frustrated with the gods. Just like in the Odyssey, the gods only appear when there is some kind of struggle going on. That, or the gods are bored and need some form of entertainment. Yes, it sounds lovely in theory that Athena and Venus helped Odysseus and Aeneus, but why did they even do it? Athena could have just sent Odysseus home instead of making him take a super long journey. Better than that, she could have helped years ago when he was first marooned on the island. Then in the Aenied, the gods are always fighting and bickering. How can you revere them when they don't even get along? The entire point here being that the gods anger me. I just wish I could understand their logic and reasoning.

P.S. I commented on James' blog 

A Disappointment of Epic Proportions

          Aeneas' version of the siege of Troy is possibly the most moving literature I have read this semester. Perhaps it is because I like Aeneas better than Odysseus, perhaps I just feel bad for him. This quote describes their state perfectly. "The desperate odds doubled their fighting spirit: from that time on, like predatory wolves in fog and darkness...through arrow flights and enemies we ran toward our sure death, straight for the city's heart." He describes an agile crew that valiantly assembles against the enemy of Troy, despite their impending doom. They fight well and hard before those who were left alive finally accept defeat and escape the city.
        This scene is so dramatic because Aeneas describes the savagery of the war in killing women and children. Blood and dead bodies lie everywhere. You can feel the impending defeat sinking deeper and deeper into Aeneas' chest as the situation gets worse. Not only does he lose his city, but also his beloved wife. If only they hadn't traded their security for the simple fraud of Sinon, "Keep faith, Troy, as you are kept from harm If what I say proves true, if what I give is great and valuable."
         Chapter two ends with the grave lament:
"...No help or hope of help existed. So I resigned myself, picked up my father, and turned my face toward the mountain range."

p.s. I commented on Abbie George's

Ulysses

Like seemingly everyone seemed to have picked up, the Aeneid shares MANY similarities with the Odyssey. However, the way this seemed to present itself to me most obviously was in the way the gods acted. The spite and revenge of one god(ess) on the hero, but shock of all shocks, the hero is destined by fate to prevail, which puts a damper on the vengeful plans said deity had in store.
However the real question is why the similarities? I don't think that simple plagiarism is a good enough reason. Then I wondered if maybe it was because of the setting. Because this story is set to run parallel to that of Odysseus (here called Ulysses), it could serve as a reminder of sequence? I really have no idea.

P. S. I commented on Jeremy Beaman's post

The Advocate

There are incredibly clear connections that can be made between The Odyssey and The Aeneid.

Athena is to Odysseus as Venus is to Aeneas. Both are advocates for the characters. They defend and advise both men in the process of enduring hardships.Venus gets the help of other various gods along the way to help weave her master plan, just as Athena speaks to Zeus and other gods as she weaves her master plan. Also both goddesses appear to their favored mortals in disguise.

I did an essay on the importance of disguise regarding Athena and the development of Telemachus, so the disguise of Venus caught my attention. I wonder how significant Venus' tendency to withhold will be in the development of Aeneas.

This is only one aspect of many that connect the two tales. Interesting to see the war from the other side.

P.S. I commented on Danielle's post.

The Will of the Gods

It's interesting to see immortal beings explaining that the fall of Troy is the god's doing. Often, the will of the gods was portrayed in a semi-positive light. For example, to attribute Odysseus's success to Athena's help and guidance. Aeneas's mother, however, is very clear about why the city has fallen. She says that "the harsh will of the gods it is, the gods, that overthrows the splendor of this place and brings Troy from her height into the dust." I liked seeing it from this perspective because the Greeks will be thanking the gods for their victory while the Trojans are cursing the same gods for their defeat.

I commented on Collingsworth's.

Aeneas --- What a Hunk

     Back, during the discussion of Greek Art, there was discussion on the "ideal mate." Okay, now I might eat my words later, but Aneas seems to have what it takes. He's got it all. He's the family man. He's fighting for the cause. He is your put-together, go-after-it kind of fellow. It's made evident mostly in Book II. Once the attack is occurring, he is forced to leave (after an attempted attack on Helen---smart guy) with his family. This attempted attack on Helen, even though stopped by Venus (which I am lost on connecting the Greek and Roman names), is very... Heroic. 

     Virgil is giving us this view of the underdog. The city that is to be torn to shreds in a surprise undermining attack contains a being who has a charming heroic character. Strangely, I never felt one-sided sympathy. The whole picture is presented. (THANK YOU, Virgil.) 

     Back to Aeneas, I'm curious to see his character progress. I want to know for sure his heroic nature I assumed of him is true.

Comment: http://honorsblogging.blogspot.com/2014/11/fate-and-free-will.html?showComment=1415850493186&m=1#c8750904795697733978

On Miss Kayleigh-Marie

What?

So, I can normally understand most stories and their flow, but the Aeneid is another story. First the change from the Greek pantheon, to the Roman pantheon threw me off. While the Roman pantheon is strikingly similar, I had a problem understanding who each god was. Also, I had to read the same paragraph multiple times in-order to understand what is going on, and I am still not quite sure... However the view of the Trojan war from the side of the Trojan's is very much appreciated. History is normally told by the winner, this is one of the few times when it is not.

Commented on Jeremy's

So That Makes More Sense... Kinda

I found it really interesting to watch the fall of Troy from the opposite side. In the past I always wondered why in the world they would just see this random horse on the beach, assume it was from the gods, and haul it in. At the time they put so much stock in signs, that if snakes from the sea consumed the sons of the only man against the horse, they knew it must have been a sign. But still, it’s interesting how when under stress they were much more likely to throw reason to the wind. They never really stopped to think. How often do we over-extrapolate or overthink things when we are under stress?

Fate and Free Will

One thing I (finally) picked up on while reading The Aeneid was the idea of the finality of "fate". In all of these ancient epics, if a person's fate was foretold, nothing could stop them from coming to a different end. Aeneas was fated to settle Italy and settle Italy he did. Even when seemingly insurmountable obstacles were put in his way, some of which were direct blows from one of the most powerful goddesses know to the romans, Juno.

So, under the greek and roman gods, did people have free will? It seems that if Zeus/Jupiter decided you were going to do something, you were going to do it regardless of what happened to you along the way. There was no way to get out of your destiny. I don't really know what I'm trying to get at here but I think it's along the lines of whether or not this ancient religion acknowledged free will and, if it didn't, how can all of its great heroes like Odysseus and Aeneas be credited with their triumphs?

P.s. I commented on Jeremy's post

History

From what I've read about the Æneid, Virgil is filling in gaps to create a tale for the founding of Rome. Yes Æneas is mentioned in the Odyssey. So Virgil took those mentionings and some other information from the Iliad and other writings and concocted this little Latin myth. I think it's pretty gnarly that the Romans, who had so much pride in their own particular identity, felt the need to give an homage to their Greek influences. This work came to become recognized canon as part the education of Roman citizens even into Christian times. As a child, I would have had to memorize this. Just as Greek children memorized their epics. 

P. S. J. Bea's post currently hosts my remark. 

The Odyssey vs. The Aeneid part 2

I'm adding to Kelli's idea: THERE ARE SO MANY SIMILARITIES.  Venus is disguising herself just as Athena did.  I'm still trying to figure out how Aeneas recognized his mother as she walked away...  That seems odd.  As I discussed in my comment on Kelli's, there are similarities in the actions of the soldiers as they land at Carthage and those of Odysseus' men.  Both feast and drink!  Along with those, Aeneas and Odysseus have keen similarities.  Both are solid leaders and have the trust of their men.  Why is the story line of the the Odyssey so closely related to the Aeneid? What was Virgil trying to accomplish or prove by this?  I think it could be that he wished he were Greek.

P.s. - Kelli's

The Odyssey vs. The Aeneid

I went into The Aeneid expecting it to be similar to The Odyssey, and it is in the fact that it's a piece of Ancient literature surrounding the times of the Trojan War. The differences were very striking to me though. The change of the gods's names from the Greek to Roman, the differentiation in phrasing, the constant reference to words that I don't know what they are because I never saw them with Homer. I mean, it took a lot of context clues to figure out that unlike in Odysseus's journey where we sailed around a happy map figuratively, the story was actually referencing the real map as we understand today. So I looked up some background information and learned Virgil actually wrote the Aeneid about Aeneas, a character mentioned some six hundred years earlier in The Illiad. Aeneas eventually becomes the ancestor of the Romans, but the story is about his travels and conquers of Italy.

ATTENTION

Hey guys! Just a friendly reminder that blogs aren't due until Wednesday night so don't panic if you haven't got it finished yet. Also, we still need your ten dollar contribution to the honors fund. You can bring it to class on Thursday or feel free to run it by room 202 in Faulkner Hall second long. If we aren't there to answer the door, slide it underneath with a note on the chalkboards stating your name. It's really important that you guys get this to us quickly because it funds the play and it also helps with parties that we will have in the next semester. Thanks!

Attention!

Remember there is no blog this week due to the Exam on Tuesday and Groups 3 & 4 presenting on Thursday!